There are various factors that are essential to a good shidduch:
Hashkafa, personality, life goals, background… among others. Some have more importance than others, but they all carry some weight.
However, there are people who think otherwise. There are people who believe that there is only one ingredient necessary to make a good marriage. There are people who believe that if singles want to get married badly enough, they have it within their power to do so.
Listen up all you languishing singles, listen up parents of singles, and listen up shadchanim and wannabe shadchanim.
You can hang up the phone, ditch the vetting process, delete the list of what you’re looking for in a potential spouse, and throw out the notebooks with descriptions and information.
There are people who have condensed all that a good marriage entails into one basic component: good middos.
And while I agree that good middos are of utmost importance in any situation and particularly in marriage, I vehemently disagree with the assertion that that’s all it takes to make a good marriage.
If people got married based on that assumption, they would quickly morph into someone you don’t recognize as they proverbially bend over backwards to make their marriage work. Forget about superficialities such as being happily married, their entire Shana Rishona, (which even in the best of cases requires work and adjustment,) would be about changing themselves so that they can simply tolerate their spouse, and merging sometimes vastly different goals and outlooks in life so that they can head somewhat in the same direction. Someone in the marriage would evolve into a chameleonic person as they try to figure out who they are and who they need to become in order for the marriage to work.
I certainly don’t intend to test that theory but for anyone who considers it, flex your muscles. You’re in for the workout of a lifetime.
21 comments:
I have this discussion with my daughter a lot. I don't think that good middos is all you need, but I do believe that it should be way up on the top of the list. If you get all of those other things, but not good middos, your marriage is in trouble. And if you have good middos, but something else goes wrong...or turns out to be not quite what you'd have wanted...almost anything can be worked out if you have the good middos. I'd say, compromise on any one of those other factors, but don't bend on the middos.
Mystery Woman, I agree. Middos are all the way at the top of my list and that's something I would never compromise on.
I still don't think that it's the only thing I should look for in a shidduch. If yes, I could have been married years ago. I've dated a number of guys with good middos and we still weren't compatible. These people weren't saying that it's important in marriage, they were saying that if older singles want to get married badly enough, they could. They just need to marry someone with good middos and everything would work itself out. And that's just wrong. (Besides for the fact that they are putting all the power in the human's hand, when ultimately, it is all up to The One Above.)
Actually, it depends how you define "good middos". Technically, if the two people have certain middos, then yes, that's all it would take to have a happy marriage. Why do I say this? First of all, BOTH people need the good middos, not just one party. That's extremely important because if one person lacks them, the marriage can very easily not work out. Next, who said that if you marry based on the middos assumption, you'll have to "quickly morph into someone you don’t recognize as they proverbially bend over backwards to make their marriage work"? Almost all marriage problems I can think of can be worked out with specific middos. Someone with good middos might not necessarily see the need to change him/herself just to conform to their spouse's wishes. Being strong and firm is also a middah. Also, both people don't need to have matching personalities or character types to travel the same road to one goal. A husband can sit in one seat, and the wife in another. They still get there, and together.
But I agree with you that middos doesn't remove the risk of every single problem that can possibly occur. Say one spouse is abusive. The other spouse, though, has no control over that, and even the best middos won't necessarily cure the other one. However, if, before they got married, they looked at other factors and not just middos, how would it have helped them? One wouldn't have necessarily known the other was going to be abusive. These stuff don't show up till later. So nothing could have saved him/her at that point.
In other words, I believe that middos is still a better choice, and that in situations where the girl and boy have exemplary middos (and I don't mean Chessed Head or whatever), they needn't look further. But then again, who's that amazing?!
Having dated guys with good middos who were not a good fit for me, I agree that middos are not everything, but they are definitely the top of the list. The thing is that there are a lot of different middos. No one is perfect and is going to display good middos 100% of the time. I get more specific than that and define which middos I mean particularly.
And also, I have always wondered....if we're all looking for good middos, how do people with bad middos get married? Clearly it is not that simple.
wow - i'm assuming the above group of idiots are married individuals who have nothing in common with their spouses other than genuine good middos...because, really, they would never tell you to do something they wouldn't even consider...
and for the record, i know a lot of jerks who got married and seem to be quite happy. they just marry their counterparts and create an evil empire...hey, it works for them.
and SIR, (a little odd calling you sir) i'm sure your guy isn't the one who is categorized by "overall good middos". i imagine you want someone with a little more spice in him.
I think that good middos are the most important thing, but it is not the be all and end all of marriage. There are people with stellar middos whom another person can bring out the worst in them.
But that being said, the one thing every single person will tell you is that without shalom bayis, nothing is worth it in the marriage. Therefore anything which significantly (which is subjective) affects shalom bayis should be taken into consideration. this can include evaluations of attractiveness, financial stability, or parental support/interference. all of these impact, all should be considered.
@colloquiallyspeaking: Actually, I totally WOULD zone in on the middos as a primary thing. Every boy I rejected for one reason or another all had one thing in common, in addition to the deal-breaker I found, and that was bad middos. Bad middos don't sit together with ugly personalities. I mean, do you hate anyone with awesome middos? I don't. So if I see stellar middos, it means the bigger picture is something favorable. And I think it's rude to refer to this blog's visitors as idiots. Do we have to suffer at the expense of your cynicism?
I agree with Harry - there are a lot of things, other than middos, which can affect shalom bayis. But most of those things can change at any time. And if/when they do, it's the good middos that'll get you through it.
But SIR...I do agree that there are other things that need to be considered. All I'm saying is that middos definitely should be the #1 thing.
iRiR...I think she meant the people that SIR is talking about in her post. I also got insulted for a minute lol.
A good, strong marriage simply can't exist or thrive without good middos. But as you write, you could easily end up with a functional marriage where you don't achieve happiness because the greater conenctions between the husband and wife aren't there. If they don't fit their spouse's intellectual needs, understand emotional and psychological nuances, or even enjoy doing the same things, you're going to end up with a marriage that works, but neither smoothely nor with any great joy.
Instead of saying you just need to marry someone with good middos - everyone should put it at the top of their list, certainly above looks (which are important in their own right, but not #1). It's all about properly prioritizing what's important when looking for/choosing a spouse.
thanks for clearing that up MW - didn't realize it would be taken to be the above comments:)
iRiR, I am not arguing with the FACT that good middos is of utmost importance in a *marriage*. But it takes WAY more than that to make a good *shidduch*. The premise that good middos is the only criterion necessary to make a good shidduch is false!
Once you're married, once you're past dating and seeing that you're compatible, you have your marriage to work on and good middos makes the world of a difference. But you can't just match people up based on middos. It would be a disaster.
SternGrad, Exactly my point. It takes way more than good middos to make you compatible. But these people were saying that older singles should just marry anyone with good middos and make it work.
colloquiallyspeaking, Thank you! I knew you'd understand. You just made me feel a whole lot better. I care so much about middos, but I could never listen to these people and marry just anyone so long as they're nice.
harry-er than them all, Right, exactly.
Aren't you basically saying the same thing in both paragraphs? (I'm only asking because you started the second one with: But that being said.)
iRiR, Of course bad middos is a deal breaker. Nobody is arguing with that. But if I were to ask you what you were looking for in a shidduch, would you only answer: good middos? If that were the case, I'd have millions of boys to suggest as a shidduch!
Mystery Woman, Thanks for the clarification! Good middos is number 1. But number 1 usually means 1 of a few. That's my point. There are other points to consider other than just middos. But that definitely should be verified first. I'm not arguing that!
Shades of Grey, Thank you for understanding. You are spot on. Thanks for your comment.
very well said and important to be said! i often tell this to my single friends as well. when asked what we are looking for we say we just want a nice guy. but honestly thats not true. he better be a nice guy but he also better have other qualities that make us want to be with him.
I personally believe that for a marriage to work, the couple needs to time to talk to each other and say nicely what's on their mind. Plus, show appreciation to each other for what they do, even the little things. And be understanding and supportive
I totally agree. I've gone out with people who were certainly kind, courteous, with good middos, etc. but had the kind of personality that I personally find irritating--I'm okay with spending a bit of time here and there with a personality like that but if forced to spend a considerable amount of time with somebody like that, it wouldn't exactly bring out the best side of me (something I think Shades of Gray was saying).
Totally agree, great post. There must be some compatibility, otherwise why can't anybody with good middos marry anybod y with good middos. But, if generally, things match up, middos is what you need to make things work. And... A huge dose of siyata dishmaya.
While I agree with you, SiR, in principle that a good marriage is more than just good middos, you do realize that just because a couple has some level of similarity it does not guarantee that they will have a good marriage. There are so many factors, even some external and beyond one’s control, that determine what makes a good marriage as opposed to a simple marriage or even a bad marriage.
Also, one has to consider why they are getting married, or more specifically what they are getting married for. Some people are looking for a best-friend, while others might just be looking to get married for the sake of getting married or having kids or fitting into society or whatever. So yes, one who is looking for a best-friend type of relationship should probably find compatibility on more than one level, because that is what they need or want or both, while someone who is not looking for that may not need that level of compatibility in order to be happy. Whatever the case may be, let me pose a theoretical question if I may; if for example we were talking about a 40 year-old single or older (chas v'shalom, lo aleinu) would it be better to be “simply married” or simply alone?
still waiting: Right, exactly. Thank you.
Anonymous: Same here. I've thought of the guys I dated who were exceptional baalei middos and I still can't imagine living with them.
Mary Jane: True. Thank you.
TheAnon1: I understand that. But I think that making a marriage work gets much harder if the only thing you were looking for in the first place is middos. There has to be some common ground!
As for the reason to get married, I would say most people want to be happily married. The theoretical question you pose is difficult to answer as I'm not at that stage yet b'h and I rather not think about it.
Woah! It’s a good thing after the comments you’ve gotten from shadchanim/well meaning friends/family you still have your sense of humor intact! Keep it – you’ll need it!!
This is a little bit much! You can't expect two people to get married based on the one quality they both have - good middos. That's just not gonna work. That’s not the only ingredient necessary in a marriage.
Certain things may be priority for some and not for others but each person has to know which things are most important for them in a spouse and don't let anyone convince you to marry someone based on good middos if the other things don't match up.
I know I may be repetitive after all the comments you’ve gotten but I just want to give my share.
Of course, good middos are super important in a marriage and this can be the key to build or destroy it but that is not the only thing needed to get it to start. I agree with iRiR that both parties need to have good middos but also, to each person certain middos may be a priority and to others they might not care about that specific quality.
For example, one person may translate “easy going, relaxed, chilled” as a positive thing while someone else may view it as negative because they need more of an organized, structured type of spouse…there are loads of examples but that’s what dating (and checking out) is all about – to see if you feel comfortable spending your ENTIRE LIFE together.
This is not about a simple friendship, this is about creating a lasting marriage. And that’s why you should ignore everyone’s comments when they tell you that if you want it badly enough you’ll make it happen. Because you want a marriage…and with your attitude, you’re gonna get it – a good, true, lasting, happy one!
Next time someone says that if you want it badly enough you’ll make it happen, tell them to try dating the guy(s) you go out with (or your next guy) and try marrying them and see what they say!
It’s a good thing you have your head on your shoulders otherwise who knows who you’d be married to and what you’d have to be dealing with right now!!
May Hashem continue to give you the clarity of mind to respond (or keep quiet) to the comments people say and to know when the right one comes along…because iy”h you’ll have a beautiful life, the rest of your life, together!!
Well, everyone pretty much said everything I could've said (and then some), so I just wanted to say: Have a great Shabbos, and hatzlacha. And kudos for having your head on straight, despite the pressure to bend to crazy angles. :)
Devorah, Thank you for your wonderfully sweet, understanding and supportive comment. Much appreciated!
Rivki, That's so sweet, thank you so much. Amen.
Happiness in marriage is...
..being secure enough not to be happy once in awhile
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